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Post by baileinneraora on Feb 19, 2019 18:49:48 GMT -5
There seems to be a strong aversion to at the least among designers for blind shots particularly tee shots. I know the scout cam alleviates the main problem with a blind shot but I still enjoy them the same as I feel they are more challenging. I don't know if there are a huge amount of blind shots in courses in the states but, there is alot where I grew up in Fife Scotland. My home course had at minimum 6 blind shots on the front 9 alone. I don't know if this prevelence is makes me more happy to see them (my favourite holes I have played are invariably blind in either the drive or approach).
Also what are your favourite blind holes and what do you think are good examples.
Here are a few starters: 17th at Dunfermline GC Blind drive and blind 2nd if you go for the green in 2 18th Kinghorn GC tee is at bottom of cliff 3rd Turnhouse GC Aim for the Hangers and let fly Tick your pick at Braids Hill 5th or 6th at Saline getting to the top of the hill or teeing off from it
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2019 19:35:43 GMT -5
There seems to be a strong aversion to at the least among designers for blind shots particularly tee shots. I know the scout cam alleviates the main problem with a blind shot but I still enjoy them the same as I feel they are more challenging. I don't know if there are a huge amount of blind shots in courses in the states but, there is alot where I grew up in Fife Scotland. My home course had at minimum 6 blind shots on the front 9 alone. I don't know if this prevelence is makes me more happy to see them (my favourite holes I have played are invariably blind in either the drive or approach).
Also what are your favourite blind holes and what do you think are good examples.
Here are a few starters: 17th at Dunfermline GC Blind drive and blind 2nd if you go for the green in 2 18th Kinghorn GC tee is at bottom of cliff 3rd Turnhouse GC Aim for the Hangers and let fly Tick your pick at Braids Hill 5th or 6th at Saline getting to the top of the hill or teeing off from it
It's not so much an aversion. If it's executed properly like joegolferg does it no one says a word. Its just when it's every other hole and I feel like sightlines are ignored entirely that I would speak up.
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reebdoog
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,742
TGCT Name: Brian Jeffords
Tour: CC-Pro
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Post by reebdoog on Feb 19, 2019 19:37:03 GMT -5
I use em iften...they are great when done well. Bandit ridge has many actually
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Post by linkslover on Feb 20, 2019 2:56:10 GMT -5
Used right they really add to a hole.
There is a course fairly local to me called Uttoxeter. Their 8th (I think) is an uphill par 5. For a longer hitter it's two blind shots, for a shorter hitter it's three blind shots. The hole takes the piss. Their 2nd is also horrible. It's a blind tee shot, but there is a pond in range which golfers unfamiliar with the course often hit in to.
A good example of a blind hole is the 14th at Hesketh. Three large pot bunkers cut into the dune that crosses the fairway forces you to lay up off the tee, giving you a blind second shot to the green that can be seen back from the tee. That's really well done, as you really have to think where to hit/where you hit your tee shot for how you will hit your second shot.
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Post by Koop on Feb 20, 2019 7:45:57 GMT -5
Blind spots just like anything else in this game of designing.... they are all subjective. If you pull off a perfectly designed blind shot and the player or judge doesn't like blind shots, you lose.
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Post by joegolferg on Feb 20, 2019 7:59:53 GMT -5
I absolutely love a good "Alps" hole. I much prefer holes with a blind approach shot rather than a blind tee shot as you can then frame where the green is from the tee. Too many great holes to mention that play with blind shots, so I'll leave this link here for you. ๐ thefriedegg.com/alps-template-hole/
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 9:28:50 GMT -5
I haven't put a blind hole in one of my designs in years. Ironically, I have one or two in my US Open design. I think the key to a blind tee shot is to design the hole straight or with only a slight dogleg, a wider fairway, and hazards that don't come into play unless your drive is way offline.
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Post by culallen on Feb 20, 2019 9:48:36 GMT -5
My take is that if you are presented with a blind shot (particularly off the tee), there had better be a visual payoff on the next shot.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 9:51:46 GMT -5
My us open design has blind/semi blind shots as well. But the blind approach can be avoided with the right tee shot. One tee shot the fairway can't be seen but framing bunkers are visible so that's what I mean by semi blind.
On another hole the sightline to the green is blocked by overgrowth in a ravine on a direct line to the hole. But if you leave your tee shot out to the left your view is unobstructed
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 10:00:46 GMT -5
My us open design has blind/semi blind shots as well. But the blind approach can be avoided with the right tee shot. One tee shot the fairway can't be seen but framing bunkers are visible so that's what I mean by semi blind. On another hole the sightline to the green is blocked by overgrowth in a ravine on a direct line to the hole. But if you leave your tee shot out to the left your view is unobstructed That's true about the framing. If you have a blind tee shot with trees on either side of the fairway, the average golfer will calculate the width and correct direction of his landing area almost subconsciously.
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Post by LKeet6 on Feb 20, 2019 14:36:07 GMT -5
Big fan of blind shots.
Not sure I agree with the "visual payoff" comment. First up, you can make some nice surrounds (whilst not being able to see up ahead obvs.) Also, a blind shot IS a type of visual? It adds variety, as I see it; and adds variety in a golfing sense. It's a genuine IRL part of a designers pallette...
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Post by linkslover on Feb 21, 2019 2:42:27 GMT -5
I played Path of Daggers last night in the Casuals Society. Horrible, horrible course. Every shot is blind except weirdly the tee shot on the par 3 17th.
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Post by mattf27 on Feb 21, 2019 7:02:54 GMT -5
I think the issue with blind shots in-game is that they don't translate as well. There's an intimidation factor to them on a real course, and they make you second guess your aiming point. With a scout cam, and an aiming circle, both of those things are gone. So the blind tee shot is purely an aesthetic choice, and one that's more difficult to make appealing than another, visible tee shot. There's certainly a place for them, and they're fun to do occasionally, but it doesn't make the same case as it would in real life.
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Post by LKeet6 on Feb 21, 2019 7:46:19 GMT -5
I think the issue with blind shots in-game is that they don't translate as well. There's an intimidation factor to them on a real course, and they make you second guess your aiming point. With a scout cam, and an aiming circle, both of those things are gone. So the blind tee shot is purely an aesthetic choice, and one that's more difficult to make appealing than another, visible tee shot. There's certainly a place for them, and they're fun to do occasionally, but it doesn't make the same case as it would in real life.
completely fair comments.
I still think, for golf geeks that most of us are, they should be appreciated in game, as you see them in real life. And i still think as you're playing the shot, you have that intimidation "feel," whilst you being absolutely correct, not the intimidation "risk..."
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Post by joegolferg on Feb 21, 2019 8:38:25 GMT -5
I played Path of Daggers last night in the Casuals Society. Horrible, horrible course. Every shot is blind except weirdly the tee shot on the par 3 17th. I can only assume that it is a poorly designed course with unintentional blind shots being the result of non existent land movement. You see this a lot with brand new designers.
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