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Post by linkslover on Jan 11, 2019 7:33:29 GMT -5
Mine would have to invent new colours.
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Post by CuseHokie on Jan 11, 2019 8:26:41 GMT -5
It’s a long road to getting a swing accuracy near that. Then it’s a case of course management, as you demonstrated in that round. Think my avatar has a broken arm, needs looking at... Everyone will have their preferred way of swinging. I'm a left-thumb swinger. I grew up on Xbox (where the L stick was higher than the R) and bought a PS4 when TGC1 came out. Also keep in mind in a round as insane as this one, I'm going to have some good swings else I wouldn't achieve that score. I pretty much stuffed every wedge to 10 feet or less. With regards to course management, the par3s (2/8/11) are a great example of landing the ball in the right spot and letting the course do the rest. Only 4 of 22 birdied 1 and 8 so those were shots on the field. Then of course eagle at 15 (only one to eagle) and at 9 (one other eagled) are two more shots on the field... I thought I got a bad break on 7 - I landed that approach so early and it still trickled off... :-D tgctours.com/Tournament/holebyholestats/4206/?round=2
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2019 9:32:54 GMT -5
I grew up on Spectrum 48k, with cassette loading. Should be Yoda by now, but still evolving from the rough. That round done you well, squeezed it by 1 shot from the Priest, I believe. I’d like to see some edited uploads of Majors/Ryder Cup. Be interesting to see different course management from apex players when the crunch is on. Next level...sponsored events. That would be something...
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Post by vivamexico on Jan 11, 2019 21:51:18 GMT -5
Congratulations on shooting a tremendous round ! And congratulations to TGCTours for showing the api data for that particular round . I see that a few players have been removed from TGC Tours because their api data is illegitimate. Would it be possible to see the data from an illegitimate round ? And compare it to a score of 21 under par that was legitimate ? I think that would help a lot of players to understand how all this data is monitored Kind regards Viva
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Post by jwfickett on Jan 11, 2019 22:10:13 GMT -5
As a designer who does not even play on the tours, this is Exhibit A through mother@!$#ing Z on why it is pointless to design with the intention of making courses "hard." There is no such thing as "hard." As long as the game came be mathematically defeated, we designers are better off just making beautiful, fun, strategically interesting courses with multiple options that do not beat up on the average player. It is basically impossible to make a course challenging for the PGA Tour player, of which there are not that many, comparatively.
With that said, this was incredible to watch. An amazing effort.
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Post by vivamexico on Jan 11, 2019 23:02:38 GMT -5
That is a very honest and sensible comment . Great courses are ones that players continuously want to play over and over , not boring , narrow fairway , flat courses where the only Defence is a sloping green and a high wind . But I am curious as to how a player gets removed from the leaderboard . And now that an API has been posted from a legit score , I am hoping that an API from someone who’s scores have been removed .... rcknfrewrld , can be shown . Once again , I would like to congratulate TGCTours for doing an amazing job , because without you , this game would be riddled with players using unfair means to win ,and it would be pretty boring with very little competitiveness, but it would be nice to see the evidence as to why a player gets his scores removed .
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Post by fadgewacker on Jan 12, 2019 2:00:12 GMT -5
SmilingGoats I’d be happy for you to post either of the rounds I had issue with earlier this year. I had Doyley check the TST exhibition and I got API’d using my old wireless DualShock in the second event of the season, R3 or 4 I think. Not even seen the graphs myself! That would be interesting to compare to a) Mitch and b) me nowadays. I’m still pretty straight and I’m competitive but have worked the issue out and no longer worry about every shot I hit!! Might give some perspective to folk. EDIT - not wanting to derail the thread, of there’s a better place to post, what I’m saying as I’d be happy to be used as a before and after example.
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Post by vivamexico on Jan 12, 2019 2:11:47 GMT -5
Yes! I agree ! I don’t think any player who has been removed and posted a complaint is genuinely trying to pretend . I think they are genuinely confused . If a round of 21 under can be shot with TGCTOURS being happy with the data , then it would be cool to see the data from players who have been removed .
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2019 2:36:04 GMT -5
Here's one that got pulled recently, with Mitch's below - huge difference. First player had 18 shots all within an extremely narrow central range, while Mitch had no more than 3 shots within a similarly narrow range (4 were beyond the threshold on the right so they could have been anything), which was off-centre - though it doesn't matter if you hit perfectly straight per se, because if you get 18 shots all 8 points to the left or right of centre, you'll still get pulled because it's extremely unlikely a human could produce such consistent dispersion:
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Post by fadgewacker on Jan 12, 2019 2:46:05 GMT -5
Here's one that got pulled recently, with Mitch's below - huge difference. First player had 18 shots all within an extremely narrow central range, while Mitch had no more than 3 shots within a similarly narrow range (4 were beyond the threshold on the right so they could have been anything), which was off-centre - though it doesn't matter if you hit perfectly straight per se, because if you get 18 shots all 8 points to the left or right of centre, you'll still get pulled because it's extremely unlikely a human could produce such consistent dispersion: I reckon the other 4 shots were chips or flops as opposed to wild shots mate. They don’t feature on the chart to my knowledge.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2019 3:29:35 GMT -5
If a round of 21 under can be shot with TGCTOURS being happy with the data To be honest the underlying mindset in the above comment is misguided, and Mitch's chart of a wide dispersion is the best evidence of that. I see people all the time looking at a score alone and saying it's impossible without thinking about what it actually takes to score low. Swinging straight is not nearly as important as so many people assume. Last year I was in CC Pro for a month and honestly thought I'd never get out, but then I decided to go Rainman mode and put crazy study hours in, and I raced up to world tour in about 6 weeks, so I know for myself that the no.1 way to score low is through knowledge, with execution obviously being important but not nearly as much. I personally think the below (abstract, obviously) estimation of how relatively important various aspects of the game are in terms of scoring low is a useful way of thinking about it. The numbers themselves don't really matter, it's the relative importance of each aspect, which in my mind and from my experience are about right. a) Knowledge (70%)- Loft / distance dynamic (15%) - Picking the higher percentage landing spots, especially on approaches (15%) - Putting and the pace/break relationship on different green conditions (15%) - Impact of green firmness and speed on bounce and roll on various clubs (10%) - Wind adjustment (different based on club and direction) for aim and its relationship to loft and spin (10%) - Fasts, slows and partials, more important for chips and flops (5%) b) Execution (30%)- tempo (20%) - straightness (10%) An applied example: you have a 164 yard approach on hole 1 so you whip out a stock 8 iron and boom, you hit it perfectly straight and P/P. But d'oh! You didn't take a mental note of the fact that the greens are firmer than normal, you didn't realise that a following wind, even though it's very slight, reduces backspin, and you also didn't notice that there's a slight downslope right on your landing point just before it turns into an upslope as it gets nearer the pin. The result is a huge first bounce and rollout, and suddenly from what looked like a decent approach shot you're looking at 60ft putt and cursing the designer. But if you took note of the green conditions, wind and the downslope, and you knew that lofting x notches on an 8 iron takes 3-4 yards off the carry distance, you'd be able to aim for the much safer and flatter earlier landing spot where you can be a yard or 2 short, long, left or right and it'll still be fine, so that it rolls down that downslope rather than bounces off it, and then the upslope slows it down as it gets closer to the pin and now you've got a flat-ish 8 footer. As Mitch put it, you're letting the course do the work for you by picking the spots which allow more room for execution error. At least in terms of distance and left/right dispersion, because if your tempo is wrong you're screwed no matter what lol, that's why I put it as more important than straightness above, the penalty for a bad tempo is so much worse. Also while I don't place premium importance on putting in the above list (after I looked at PGA stats yesterday I found that GIR is about the same importance as putting), for me personally it's the most important by far especially as I struggle with tempo. On the PC PGA society, my proximity to hole stat ranks me 34th among all PC players in the society, but my putts per hole stat is ranked 7th, and overall I'm ranked 3rd in points for the society. So for me personally, my putting helps compensate for my relatively poor approach execution, so I put way more focus on putting in my practice rounds as I can't rely on my approaches as much as the better players. Great example is the latest Inglorious Basterds society event, I scored -8 in R1 and -17 in R2 - the difference was my first round my putting was poor (15% long putts made) while in the 2nd round it was phenomenal (57% of long putts made). For me personally the difference between a good round (say -10) and a great round (-15 or better) is almost always down to putting.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2019 3:31:13 GMT -5
I reckon the other 4 shots were chips or flops as opposed to wild shots mate. They don’t feature on the chart to my knowledge. I meant the far right purple line which had a frequency of 4 - Jeff said those are anything at point x and beyond, so just because there's a high frequency in that spot it doesn't mean they hit that exact point 4 times.
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Post by vivamexico on Jan 12, 2019 4:51:24 GMT -5
This is all very interesting stuff and I am aware that the more time you put into playing this game , the easier it becomes . Who’s swing pattern was that by the way ? I’ will never accuse any player of cheating . Simply because I played tiger woods where everyone shot 30 under par with a six axis right 😁, . I just feel for players who I think are genuine , like rcknfrewrld , who come from Xbox to ps , and get pulled . Am I so naive and trustworthy that I think that he is a genuine good player ? Or is he trying to pull my pants down and take me from behind ? Either way , I’m a man and I can take it , begrudgingly . But I want to see the data if possible . Please Tim. Thank you Kind a Regards Viva
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Post by vivamexico on Jan 12, 2019 5:00:05 GMT -5
Also Larry , you talk about hitting a specific spot on the green to let the course do the work . That’s exactly what every player wants to do , but can’t , because of the inaccuracies in the swing . So if someone is hitting every spot on every green , then that causes ears to prick up . I hope that makes sense without upsetting anyone . Bottom line for me is , 21 under , great round , legit . Certain players , 15 under , illegal round apparently .. I just don’t quite understand unless I see the evidence of how a guy shooting 6 shots better than a guy who gets pulled 🤦🏻♂️.
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Post by vivamexico on Jan 12, 2019 5:09:31 GMT -5
I also notice that there is a huge difference in the scale of the two graphs that you posted . And also , does the graph represent final scores ? Like a player could hit every green to within 8 feet of the pin and miss every putt and still have a rubbish round .
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