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Post by Crazycanuck1985 on Dec 16, 2018 23:09:15 GMT -5
Hey guys,
I just recorded a short video that mentions a few bugs I've run into with the patch, as well as a plea to HB. Will they even see it? Who knows. What I do know is that we need to make our voices heard if we want a better game (particularly a better designer).
Most of us hardcore designers that know more about how it works than probably anyone at HB Studios just kind of plug away and not really offer much constructive criticisms. I was very excited to see "new assets" mentioned before the patch dropped, and getting a few different sheds and new crowd seating (that very few of us even use...HB doesn't know that I believe) got me a bit frustrated.
In the video, I just mention a few things (the ability to have all plants for all themes, playtesting in different wind conditions, the stupid wavy line heavy rough/rough transition) and give them a chance to potentially give them some feedback to make the designer even better. The last few years, other than some improvements, there hasn't been much "new" added, which is really stifling creativity in my opinion.
For me personally, I'm going to finish my Invicta course, but after that, I feel like I'm done with design for an indefinite period of time. So I need your help. I'm going to try to get the attention of some HB employees through twitter and over on the HB forum, but feel free to chime in on any of my posts and offer some ideas (without being a dick, obviously). Maybe, just maybe, we will get to our voice heard a bit more and make this awesome tool even better. Or even maybe a response as to why we can't get certain things into the designer would be awesome.
Would love to hear what you guys think. Maybe I'm overthinking this and I'm the only one feeling this way at the moment, but as a collective, I feel we don't give a ton of feedback on the HB forums (its usually the same 5 guys over there and the odd guy that is aggressive, which HB will ignore). Maybe this will get things going. Thanks for your help.
Here's the video:
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 23:25:54 GMT -5
Good video Andre and I hope it gets the views it needs by the right people.
Just on the splines, I think the biggest gripe is that splines that are already down are not visible when you go to apply another spline which doesnt allow you to see where to overlay them.
IM using the add second surface (which is great) but i understand why people are missing this now.
What i will add as a request is to put "Rewind shot" back into the options menu when the ball is still in flight, not only accessible once the ball has stopped and the screen has reloaded. If i shank a drive i want to re-do it straight away as im testing a drive for a good tee shot.
Removing the rough around a brush placed bunker on a fairway would also be good, let us apply a 2nd sruface to all applications Brush and Spline.
I have other stuff but i cant remember it right now.
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Post by coruler2 on Dec 16, 2018 23:46:10 GMT -5
Here's a few things I've always wanted: Create-your-own brush tool. Let us make our own brush shape, and ability to make it soft, hard, etc.
Ability to spin and fully tilt all objects would be great, even if we can't resize it
Being able to toggle the grid on and off over your cursor, no matter where you are at
Getting rid of the squiggly lines for rough/heavy rough edges
Color palates for objects, like the countryside flowers, can have a color slider for the blossoms to make them any color
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mayday_golf83
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,279
TGCT Name: Jeremy Mayo
Tour: Elite
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Post by mayday_golf83 on Dec 17, 2018 0:08:15 GMT -5
Bravo Andre, thanks for putting this together.
I actually was experiencing the same issue with the multi-plant this evening, and I can tell you the affect is much more jarring when you're trying to plant cattails!
I think, as Roy touched on, for me it's not so much how the spline waypoints are oriented (probably b/c I pretty much pre-draw all my stuff w/ the measure tool), but it's that the waypoints disappear when you go to another task, such as laying another spline, which is a major PITA when it comes to matching up surfaces, like getting a fairway and green to mesh w/ light rough around both. As I mentioned in another thread, I can get around this by using the measure to and individually marking out each waypoint I want to trace, but it's still a step backward from what we could do pre-patch.
As for playtesting, I assume you mean testing wind strength/direction in the designer proper. I'm certain HB's response will be that you can test these things by exiting out of designer, setting up a round via the "my unpublished courses" filter and setting custom conditions from there. In a perfect world, if we can set tee & pinset when we playtest in designer, I don't know why we couldn't set wind direction/speed too.
On to the wish list. In lieu of global trees, which would be awesome, I like your coastal California suggestion, but I'd also love to see a "Spring" theme. Cherry blossoms, lilacs, deciduous trees in early leaf would be a great addition.
Other wishlist items:
1) More clubhouses or, if we're only going to have the same 9, at least make it so the land doesn't automatically flatten underneath a clubhouse. 2) A barn or two would be nice. I don't mean those glorified pole sheds they just gave us. I'm talking you classic, red wooden barn. 3) The ability to create water hazards that aren't actually water (would hopefully go hand-in-hand with finally getting the ball drop correct). 4) Ability to advance edit fences, retaining walls and the like to better follow terrain. 5) Tiltable water so we could actually, build an honest to goodness running stream.
For me, the ultimate coup de gras would be the ability to import real-world elevation data, but HBS has said multiple times that idea's DOA.
Hope this feedback is well received. Personally, I don't even go over to the HB forums anymore unless I'm dropping a new course. The reaction by some very vocal forum members over there in the run-up to TGC '19 was very much anti-designer and really turned me off, along with HBs seeming apathy toward the design community in the run-up to this edition's release.
I hope this post/video helps bridge that gap again. I'm guardedly skeptical that it will, but genuinely hope I'm wrong about that. It's the designer and the effort of dedicated and talented designers like yourself and so many others here, along with a dedicated community that drive this game. Once HB realizes this is the heartbeat of the game, not which prominent logos they can slap on the front of the box -- I think we'll return to the golden age of TGC.
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Post by pablo on Dec 17, 2018 3:18:02 GMT -5
For me there are only a few things needed:
- Vertical edges. Imagine adding a retaining wall in a few minutes, or having some nice vertical pot bunker lips - Light rough - heavy rough - A couple of new themes or - Getting rid of the themes and adding 10 pages of trees to the generic plants section - A few more clubhouses - buildings - 360 degrees moving objects. If I want to place a clubhouse upside down let me do it, even if it's unrealistic - Use of splines for laying fences, walls or streams that adapt to the terrain
IMO if the limiting factor to really make the designer evolve is the use of unity engine the answer is easy, forget about it. Having 2K on board should give HB Studios some chances (Including financial strength) to move forward into something bigger. To be honest, I would have no problem at all not being able to port any of my courses to future releases of the game, so I don't have a problem with that.
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Post by Celtic Wolf on Dec 17, 2018 5:30:06 GMT -5
I agree with a lot of the points made in this thread and have a few more. I'm pretty much the same with the designer and feel I need to take some time out as I feel it can be time wasted trying to come up with a course.
1. When a retaining wall is placed the land automatically rises or lowers to the height of the horizontal surface of the retaining wall.
2. The addition of a dyke wall which is more common in UK courses and the ability to spline it with the terrain.
3. The ability to change club sets in the designer so you can test single holes or shots without having to exit the designer and change it via the main menu.
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Post by B.Smooth13 on Dec 17, 2018 7:44:19 GMT -5
How about "Don't move my tee box 500 yards away from the green of a 175 yard hole?"
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Post by pablo on Dec 17, 2018 7:49:17 GMT -5
How about "Don't move my tee box 500 yards away from the green of a 175 yard hole?" Didn’t you read about changes in the rules of golf that will be introduced on January Justin? Hb are visionaries
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Post by B.Smooth13 on Dec 17, 2018 7:54:03 GMT -5
How about "Don't move my tee box 500 yards away from the green of a 175 yard hole?" Didn’t you read about changes in the rules of golf that will be introduced on January Justin? Hb are visionaries Honestly, that's a more reasonable explanation than anything else I've heard. "Oops, our bad" should be the new company slogan over there.
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Post by Violinguy69 on Dec 17, 2018 8:24:07 GMT -5
Other than the little bugs that have been mentioned (rough/HR, splines, etc) I agree with mayday - we need to be able to create a hazard without needing water. Using OB for hazards is not fair to the players.
Obviously we need more objects. Clubhouses, barns, chapels, and sheds. Some new vehicles would be nice also. Specifically trucks/trailers and larger cars. My Invicta course could really use some big trucks (semis). As for trees, we need to be able to use different trees than themes allow. I want to use pine trees on an ocean course. Currently, if I want pine trees on a course set in North Carolina along the coast, I have to use the Highlands theme which just doesn't work. HB has said over and over that universal trees are a problem, so then they need to give us more themes. A California theme and a Pinehurst/Kiawah theme would be a good start. Or, at least give us an oceanfront background for Boreal. Bottom line - we need more options. It is increasingly more difficult to build a unique looking course.
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Post by theclv24 on Dec 17, 2018 9:56:07 GMT -5
Last time I tried getting HB's attention they started deleting my posts. I'm not the pessimistic type, but I have little confidence in them so I don't even bother anymore. Might as well enjoy a somewhat-working designer now while we have it, because there is no guarantee it will be available or worth designing in in future iterations.
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Post by ErixonStone on Dec 17, 2018 10:54:03 GMT -5
A few points:
HB has said in the past that they cannot make trees global due to memory restrictions. This is clearly a limitation based on consoles. It is unclear whether the use of SpeedTree helps in any way.
New themes would be nice, but from a holistic point of view, for the health of The Golf Club franchise, how important is it, really? Dozens of high-quality courses are published every month. Additional variety is useful for the designers who spend hundreds of hours in the course designer. But how many of us are there?
The rough-heavy rough transition issue is baffling.
The Course Designer has been the bread-and-butter of The Golf Club since its inception nearly four years ago. In TGC2019, even though it didn't receive a whole lot of attention, there were some quality-of-life improvements. That there are new assets and splines are updated demonstrate that the Course Designer is not forgotten, even if the changes are a miss for most people.
There are a lot of improvements that could be made, but overall, the Course Designer is, by far, the best, most complete component of the game. The rest of the game is still catching up, and requires a lot more attention.
Yes, I have my own wish-list items. Yes, there are things that can be better. I don't disagree. But we do need to try to see the entire TGC world from the Studio's perspective. They've got bigger issues. Societies need to continue to expand. PGA Career mode is in its infancy. Offline Career needs some love. Online Matchmaking needs some love. Online play with friends needs some work to simplify the process.
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Post by mnguy12000 on Dec 17, 2018 10:56:08 GMT -5
Like everyone elses list:
-global trees -change spline how TGC2 would grow and shrink as you zoomed in and out -return the ability to see spline points after they have been laid. -light rough to heavy -allow placed water to not cause bunkers to edge. That way we can create beaches -changes club set in designer while in test mode. -trucks/SUVs -Evergreen trees -go back to TGC2 bunkers. 19's dont have lips.
Thats all I can think of. If I had to pick 2 or 3. I would say #1 global Trees, #2 Light Rough to Heavy, #3 Splines
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Post by linkslover on Dec 17, 2018 12:10:28 GMT -5
All the above improvements would be great. I also want to add fescue rough for links courses. And more animals. And proper roads.
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Post by beef on Dec 17, 2018 13:45:24 GMT -5
If memory is the issue preventing global trees, then give us the ability to swap out assets. I don't need 5 pages of global plants and flowers, give me 10 (or however many it will allow) slots to fill with what I need. Working in the Delta theme but not using the palm trees ? No worries, swap them out with something you will need.
In addition to the stuff everyone else has mentioned, I would like sod walls and proper pot bunkers.
Lastly, the ability for the designer to set the quality of lie in the heavy rough. Just rolled out of the light rough - 80%, 10 yards wide in the long grass, you're getting 40% and hitting it out sideways.
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