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Post by paulus on Oct 30, 2018 6:41:12 GMT -5
What was the result for those of us too lazy to watch the 7min vid Larry?
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Post by rob4590 on Oct 30, 2018 6:53:49 GMT -5
For those of us stuck at work and can't play the video - what was the result @larrymalone ?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 6:54:42 GMT -5
What was the result for those of us too lazy to watch the 7min vid Larry? Had a bunch of fast (and some very fast when I tried the flicky method) downswings so no better for me than my XB1 controller for tempo, and the lines were wonkier as well, so overall a total waste of money... I definitely remember easier tempo when I had a PS4 for a few weeks last year, so maybe it's a combination of a DS4 with a PS4 that produces better tempo results, or maybe I just got unlucky with a dodgy DS4 today.
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Post by B.Smooth13 on Oct 30, 2018 7:48:47 GMT -5
...which is that xbox players shoot consistently and quite substantially straighter than PS4 and PC players (which makes the idea that 'PS4 players are just better' even more untenable, since you have to postulate that people who purchase a PS4 are way, way more likely to have better rhythm, but struggle to move a stick up and down as straight, compared with people who purchase an Xbox). EDIT: realised the first chart I posted was using Jeff's global deviation stats for all players, I've now included in red the master club users' deviation specifically, which shows that PC players are the straightest with master clubs (I know much fewer PC players (64%), as a proportion of the overall TGC2019 population, choose master clubs compared with XB1 (93%), so the data is obviously distorted by better PC players choosing master clubs in the first place), while PS4 players are lagging behind in straightness for every category: For the sake of my post here, let's talk ONLY about Master's clubs, why users choose to play with them, and the skill level involved in doing so - and importantly, how those relationships influence the data. With that in mind, lets take a another look at the data Jeff provided: Here are the Masters Clubs numbers: PS4 - Median Accuracy (0.044166312), Average Percentage of Perfect Downswings - 77% XB1 - Median Accuracy (0.041543424), Average Percentage of Perfect Downswings - 46.86%% Steam - Median Accuracy (0.039952909), Average Percentage of Perfect Downswings - 68% There are more than twice as many PS4 rounds represented than XB1 rounds and 4X as many PC rounds in those numbers.That last sentence there has led me to an initial thought, we may actually be able to make a conclusion in this thorough investigation! Based on the data presented, we could be confident in saying that as the sample population increases, median accuracy decreases. Let's draw that assumption out a bit...
So, the more people including in a group playing under the most challenging difficulty level decreases the median accuracy - that's actually kind of what you'd expect given the situational variables involved, right? A small subset of the smallest of three individual populations most likely includes players of higher skill levels, especially when combined with the understanding that the straightness of swing isn't really the main barrier to use of Master's clubs for most on PC, it's tempo. We could then suppose that proficiency in proper execution of the tempo component is an indicator of a higher "skill" level - which I think it's pretty indisputable - and therefor those players are more likely to have more accurate swings (on average). However, once the barrier to Master's clubs presented by the challenges of tempo are significantly lessened, a larger population of players use them, therefor diluting the "skill" level on average, producing less accurate swings than the more "skilled," smaller subset of PC Master's club players. In sum, I think it's fair to say that accuracy for Master's clubs within a population decreases as that population grows - but why does it grow? To that point, I also think it's fair to say that, when looking only at data for trends in population averages, a more forgiving tempo component removes some of the barrier to access for users to play on the hardest difficulty level (clubset). By doing so, overall population accuracy decreases. The inference here as to why is fairly clear, I think - easier tempo makes the hardest difficulty level more accessible to play as it's easier for users to meet the minimum criteria of competency (i.e., a player feeling like they are in control, able to compete, and able to produce consistent results to their satisfaction). Since tempo is a component of skill, and lessened tempo difficulty also lessens the minimum skill proficiency required to play with Master's clubs, this subsequently reduces the overall "skill" level of competent players within that subset of Master's club users, resulting in an overall reduction in that groups accuracy.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 8:08:55 GMT -5
Great post Justin! Yep that logic sounds extremely plausible. On a related note, I'd actually be really interested in finding out why, proportionately, so many xbox players (93% at St Bedes from my count) choose master clubs when they clearly suck at tempo (no offence guys, just quoting stats!). Only about 2/3 of PC players used master clubs at St Bedes, and they don't have nearly the same difficulty as a population with tempo. Are PC players just cowards? Are xbox players just absolute mad lads?
Edit: ignore the above, Jeff's most recent post shows I was massively wrong in counting the proportion of XB1 players using master clubs. Based on the admins' stats, XB1 players are actually sane, sensible lads.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 8:10:35 GMT -5
Great post Justin! Yep that logic sounds extremely plausible. On a related note, I'd actually be really interested in finding out why, proportionately, so many xbox players (93% at St Bedes from my count) choose master clubs when they clearly suck at tempo (no offence guys, just quoting stats!). Only about 2/3 of PC players used master clubs at St Bedes, and they don't have nearly the same difficulty as a population with tempo. Are PC players just cowards? Are xbox players just absolute mad lads? Lock in B 👍
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 8:12:52 GMT -5
Seriously though, it may be that we don’t have so many people on the leaderboards shooting stupid scores, so don’t feel bad shooting closer to par. I loved scoring -11 for a 4 round score btw, made a birdie feel like a birdie.
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Post by titaneddie on Oct 30, 2018 8:37:24 GMT -5
1- I will not need to see a bar graph to know which platform houses the most nerds.
2-Justin and Larry, please tell me you guys are posting your analysis from work so at least someone is paying you for this "investigation".
3-Is it not as simple with the numbers being pretty obvious,that its probably just a little harder to hit tempo while playing on xbox for who knows whatever technical issue?
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Post by LocoOnTheSoco on Oct 30, 2018 9:58:23 GMT -5
1- I will not need to see a bar graph to know which platform houses the most nerds. 2-Justin and Larry, please tell me you guys are posting your analysis from work so at least someone is paying you for this "investigation". 3-Is it not as simple with the numbers being pretty obvious,that its probably just a little harder to hit tempo while playing on xbox for who knows whatever technical issue? Definitely 3. A few of us have complained since launch about Masters being crazy hard to get P/P on. I just didn't realize it was mainly on Xbox. I have no answer for it, but you're not going to convince me those numbers are that far off for any other reason than something is definitely wrong. First hand account here; I'm not terrible at this game and if I get P/P 50% of the time over 2 rounds it's a miracle. Probably 80% of the misses are just barely in the 'Fast' with a VF thrown in for good measure at least once a round lately. (The latter seems worse post patch.) A few slows here and there, but at those feel like slows, most of the time. Those 'fasts' turn a 6-10 foot putt into a 20 ft'r and that's huge. Especially in TsT, but everywhere. So yeah, I dunno why it's a thing. I do know it's frustrating as hell.
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Post by SmilingGoats on Oct 30, 2018 10:14:27 GMT -5
Here is final data from the Q-School Rounds 1 through Rounds 4: PS4
| Median Accuracy | Median Worst Shot | Median Standard Deviation | Avg Perfect Downswing | # of rounds included | Beginner | 0.09484758 | 0.217556521 | 0.081315956 | 95% | 471 | Pro | 0.058252478 | 0.150136679 | 0.06200633 | 84.99%
| 1301
| Masters | 0.04455676 | 0.119527079 | 0.047818329 | 77% | 3543 | All | 0.049788374 | 0.133710459 | 0.054167031 | 80% | 5315 |
XB1
| Median Accuracy | Median Worst Shot | Median Standard Deviation | Avg Perfect Downswing | # of rounds included | Beginner | 0.061886838 | 0.177847728 | 0.063475912 | 91.07% | 325 | Pro | 0.047920954 | 0.132192776 | 0.051695569 | 86.49%
| 947
| Masters | 0.041306337 | 0.108457849 | 0.041548164 | 46.70% | 1740 | All | 0.044943959 | 0.120680035 | 0.04638141 | 64% | 3012 |
Steam
| Median Accuracy | Median Worst Shot | Median Standard Deviation | Avg Perfect Downswing | # of rounds included | Beginner | 0.087144487 | 0.245793164 | 0.09336254 | 86.26% | 255 | Pro | 0.054767082 | 0.153025734 | 0.061764306 | 77.17%
| 528
| Masters | 0.039724976 | 0.1064742 | 0.042061304 | 67% | 935 | All | 0.049435605 | 0.134892613 | 0.052745499 | 73.21% | 1718 |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 10:17:46 GMT -5
Based on your exposure to HB, do you think they’d 1) Be aware of the discrepancy and/or 2) do anything about it?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 10:20:16 GMT -5
Are the number of rounds for Master and Pro clubs switched?
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Post by SmilingGoats on Oct 30, 2018 10:20:54 GMT -5
Oops...yep...I'll fix that
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Post by SmilingGoats on Oct 30, 2018 10:24:39 GMT -5
Based on your exposure to HB, do you think they’d 1) Be aware of the discrepancy and/or 2) do anything about it? We sent them an email a couple of weeks ago about it but I have no knowledge of if they are planning any changes.
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Post by rob4590 on Oct 30, 2018 10:29:12 GMT -5
On behalf of all the pro and beginner club users on Steam - I'd like to complain that it is far harder for them to get P/P than their compatriots on both PS4 and XB1. PC players need extra shots in CC!!!
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