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Post by paulus on Oct 29, 2018 15:21:12 GMT -5
Nothing's likely to come from this. It's just info. a) HB won't fix this - it's probably beyond their ability to understand the underlying causes (the layers of systems/code between a controller & the game code reacting to it, would make a normal mortal sh%$ the bed. Multiply that by 3 and perform a differential analysis on each component - just not going to happen....) b) TGCT aren't going to do anything - because - what can they do? Basically all you get from this knowledge - one more thing to moan about For people it bothers - I present you two choices; buy a PS4 or suck it up.
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Post by titaneddie on Oct 29, 2018 15:31:56 GMT -5
To be fair I'm still scoring quite well. I'll probably end up on the low end of Euro or Web.
I find the swing is far less random than tgc2...in fact it's very consistent on landing in slightly fast! lol
I'm not going to worry about it, as it's least nice to have a playable golf game again unlike 2.
I tried asking HB their thoughts on this before and they didn't answer so...it is what it is.
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Post by B.Smooth13 on Oct 29, 2018 15:39:43 GMT -5
Coming from an Engineering perspective, I would be curious to run some texts on the DS4 controller versus an Xbox stock or elite controller and figure our the ergonomic differences of the controllers. Putting the comfort and configuration of the controllers aside, I think the the DS4 could show a better percentage of perfect downswings because it's spring resistance might be greater than that of the xbox controller (it would feel stiffer). I've always attributed this to the height above the controller/grips at which the analog thumbpoint sits on xbox controllers vs ds4's. There almost certainly is some difference in spring resistance or whatever other changes in feel are present due to difference in mechanical components, but IMHO the distance the stick travels due to that raised height from the grip point comparative to a ds4, and the angle at which you control it, presents a larger challenge with an xbox controller. Less distance of movement overall and the decreased probability of going left or right of axis due to shorter distance from fulcrum to thumbpoint (not to mention the larger, flatter thumpoint, providing more surface area to control the shorter pivot distance) HAS to matter, no?
Which I think get's at what may well be the more overriding question here, and it's been staring us in the face the entire time - controller matters more than console, perhaps.
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Post by paulus on Oct 29, 2018 15:45:54 GMT -5
Very possible... and +5 points for the usage of fulcrum. I used both DS4 & Xbox on PC for extended periods in the last version - no appreciable difference, that I could determine at least.
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Post by digsb on Oct 29, 2018 16:37:55 GMT -5
To help people understand the tempo rhythm data statistics more clearly, here's another way of representing that data in gif form. PS4 players' tempo rhythm:
PC players' tempo rhythm:
Xbox players' tempo rhythm:
As an Xbox player, it’s more like this....
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Post by IGolfBad on Oct 29, 2018 16:53:31 GMT -5
Looking at all the viewpoints here, I am want to remind everyone that the average scores are separated by no more than a stroke or two, which can easily be explained by a lipout or two, and could have very little to do with the occurrence of P/P across the consoles.
Bear in mind, my scores are well above the mean, and that earns me the right to a beat down behind the stadium, followed by being stuffed into my clubhouse locker, as any nerd worth his salt deserves. 🍻
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Post by CiB0RG on Oct 29, 2018 16:53:56 GMT -5
Coming from an Engineering perspective, I would be curious to run some texts on the DS4 controller versus an Xbox stock or elite controller and figure our the ergonomic differences of the controllers. Putting the comfort and configuration of the controllers aside, I think the the DS4 could show a better percentage of perfect downswings because it's spring resistance might be greater than that of the xbox controller (it would feel stiffer). I've always attributed this to the height above the controller/grips at which the analog thumbpoint sits on xbox controllers vs ds4's. There almost certainly is some difference in spring resistance or whatever other changes in feel are present due to difference in mechanical components, but IMHO the distance the stick travels due to that raised height from the grip point comparative to a ds4, and the angle at which you control it, presents a larger challenge with an xbox controller. Less distance of movement overall and the decreased probability of going left or right of axis due to shorter distance from fulcrum to thumbpoint (not to mention the larger, flatter thumpoint, providing more surface area to control the shorter pivot distance) HAS to matter, no?
Which I think get's at what may well be the more overriding question here, and it's been staring us in the face the entire time - controller matters more than console, perhaps.
that's a good point also and I could see the design of the pad size, height, travel distance etc. contributing to the differences in tempo consistency. Since the surface area of the pad is much smaller on the xbox controller I have to use the very tip of my thumb to keep a straight line in the swing but that makes it more difficult to control the downswing because the pressure is not as easily distributed as it would be if the pad were larger. And since the resistance on the xbox controller is relatively weak that could make downswings much less consistent. To summarize... yes... I'm not saying for sure but a convincing argument could be made that it is the controllers making it more or less difficult and not the systems. I'm not going to side one way or the other though... it could be a combination of things for all I know.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2018 16:56:06 GMT -5
I feel like this has opened a can of worms. I play on X1 and have struggled with the tempo of Master clubs to the point in beat me into submission. I could barley touch the stick and it would start at backswing causing very slow. Then there were times I felt like the downswing was almost random (how 3 swings with seemly the same speed would have such different results). Come to find out, it might as it might be a system thing. Definitely interested to see what other results come from this. I think part of it is the difference between the analogs on a DS4 and a XB1 controller.
Edit: I just read Justin's post above. Guess I am repeating what was already said.
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EvanRG
Caddy
One putt, two putt, three putt.
Posts: 43
TGCT Name: Evan Gröning
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Post by EvanRG on Oct 29, 2018 17:04:56 GMT -5
On xbox and curious to know if other xboxers find this. Basically when i think i hit p/p it seems 7 out of 10 times it'll land a just barely fast downswing. If i slow it down to try and compensate the chances of landing a slow goes up so much it's not even worth it. I've just learn to play the smidge fast downswing, but i do find it almost impossible how it manages to land in that exact same fast spot so many times. Every round.......It's an up hill battle. I'm consistently Fast/Perfect to the point that I've just adopted it into how I've had to play the game. I'm by no means close to being competitive even if I switched to PS4, but I HATE the feeling of having a raw deal on the XB1.
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Post by xEB50x on Oct 29, 2018 17:53:12 GMT -5
Looking at all the viewpoints here, I am want to remind everyone that the average scores are separated by no more than a stroke or two, which can easily be explained by a lipout or two, and could have very little to do with the occurrence of P/P across the consoles. Bear in mind, my scores are well above the mean, and that earns me the right to a beat down behind the stadium, followed by being stuffed into my clubhouse locker, as any nerd worth his salt deserves. 🍻 I know you’re being objective here, but how do you explain a 46% perfect downswing avg? I’m surprised it’s only 1.5 strokes a round difference. However, that’s 4-6 strokes per tourney, which could even be the difference of making a cut or not. It is what it is, but it’s frustrating to know that xb1 as a whole has to deal with this, fair or not. It’s not fun playing for a fast ds only to get a slow ds.
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Post by coruler2 on Oct 29, 2018 18:04:59 GMT -5
I'm going to bet the margin between system scores widens even more after Pearl...would be good to see the numbers again for the cumulative rounds of Q-school
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Post by hoosier404 on Oct 29, 2018 20:45:49 GMT -5
Glad to read that its not just me. Played on the PS4 TGC from the beginning until two week ago when I got the Xbox One X. On the PS4 I was regularly in the top 1/3-1/2 of all tournaments. I play on the Pro level with TGC2019, played at the end with the highest tour ? level with TGC2. I had gotten to the point where I could almost always complete a pretty consistent baby fade off the tee and to the green. I switched to the Xbox and have stunk up the place. The controller seems so much bigger in my hands not comfortable and the stick most definitely has more variation in it. The PS4 controller seems stiff with only so much movement in it. Good news is I have stuck it out and am getting there with the Xbox controller. Finished in the bottom 30% for the first qualifier, so far shot -2,-6 in the second qualifier. I think in the end I will prefer not playing as well because its so rewarding to hit a good shot now and gives me more runway to improve and not get bored. Thanks for the analysis guys.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2018 20:58:46 GMT -5
Same as above. For whatever reason its got me right in the most competitive field. Be it Euro or Web, there’s only 7 shots from the top to the tail of the field. If results mattered I’d get it on PC, but for now I’m happy struggling away on the harder to use XBox and shooting semi realistic scores 👍
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 0:13:55 GMT -5
I’m surprised it’s only 1.5 strokes a round difference. . I was surprised by that as well, the tempo difference is crazy and you'd think the score difference would be greater. That said it might be compensated by something nobody's mentioned yet ITT, which is that xbox players shoot consistently and quite substantially straighter than PS4 and PC players (which makes the idea that 'PS4 players are just better' even more untenable, since you have to postulate that people who purchase a PS4 are way, way more likely to have better rhythm, but struggle to move a stick up and down as straight, compared with people who purchase an Xbox). Based on Jeff's data (I hope I've interpreted it correctly, i.e. 'accuracy' actually relates to inaccuracy or more specifically 'deviation' given his other posts in the forum about these stats) I've made the chart below which shows the average XB1 player at a clear advantage compared with PS4 and PC players. I've also included an estimate (based on Jeff's vague forum posts on the subject, so don't take this as in any way gospel) of deviation from a typical straight shooting controller, to show in the grand scheme of things they don't have that much of an advantage: EDIT: realised the first chart I posted was using Jeff's global deviation stats for all players, I've now included in red the master club users' deviation specifically, which shows that PC players are the straightest with master clubs (I know much fewer PC players (64%), as a proportion of the overall TGC2019 population, choose master clubs compared with XB1 (93%), so the data is obviously distorted by better PC players choosing master clubs in the first place), while PS4 players are lagging behind in straightness for every category: So don't feel too downhearted XB1 users, it's like god made you short but with a big dong - life is a little bit tougher for you but you have other strengths that offset the disadvantages Regarding the idea that it's all down to the controller not the system, as plausible as it is I struggle to accept it's the whole story, since I use an XB1 controller on PC (as I imagine most PC players do) and I do not have tempo problems, I reckon my perfect ds percentage is probably over 80% excluding flops and chips. In fact I find it relatively easy to manipulate tempo in the new game with subtle timing changes - based on some XB1 users' posts ITT that would be almost unimaginable if I were on XB1.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 5:56:20 GMT -5
Update: bought myself a DS4 to test out on PC to see if it could improve my tempo, here's the result of that test (sorry for the annoying crackling noises in the first couple of minutes, I had my foot on the headset cable...)
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